There has been a lot of hate as of
late concerning the LGTB community (I know what’s new), from a California
lawyer (Matt McLaughlin) who wants to make it legal to kill them "SodomiteSuppression Act" for no reason other than the fact that they are gay, to a
bill in Michigan “Religious Freedom Restoration Act” (Jase Bolger/Mike Shirkey)
that would make it legal for people to openly discriminate against them
claiming religious beliefs, and these are just the tip of the iceberg.
I know it’s hard to believe being
the year 2015 and being America and all, but unfortunately it’s true, this is our
reality and not some over the top made-up Hollywood script.
With all this negativity and hate
making the headlines in regards to a group of people who want nothing more than
to have the same rights and freedoms as the rest of us, I figured it would be a
good time to pick their minds to see exactly how they felt about things.
Below are some questions I asked
three very open and awesome people, who just happen to be gay, so sit back and
hear what they have to say.
Please welcome to Extreme Christian…
Cary Vaughn
Cary Vaughn is a writer
and actor in Memphis, TN. If you enjoy acerbic wit and crass humor, you can
read him at his website, The Reluctant Cat Owner's Journal
(www.reluctantcatowner.com). Since starting his website in 2012, his articles
have been featured on HumorOutcasts, LeftyPop, and Scary Mommy. He has been
translated into Finnish for Vau.fi (leading parenting website in Finland) and
has accidentally appeared on HuffPost Live in a cameo he for which he is still
ashamed.
Gay Dave
"My Gay Opinion"
Phillip
"Buddy" De Blieck
1. How does
it make you feel when people of faith, who claim to be all about love, say
things like, “gays are going to hell” just for being how God made them?
Cary
Vaughn: When I was new to being out, this infuriated me because these people
don't realize that until the age of 26, I tried not being gay. I prayed. I
hated myself. I ignored who I was supposed to be. It's kind of like that
awfully hypocritical saying, "I don't hate the sinner; I hate the
sin." When words like that fell into my ears, I would become seriously infuriated.
Nowadays, I am pretty desensitized to rhetoric like this. Instead, I feel sorry
for those who just don't know how ignorant they sound.
Gay
Dave: I think it's totally hypocritical. It's just a bunch of noise that I
ignore. I think that people like that have missed the point of their religion
and the meaning of love.
Phillip
"Buddy" De Blieck: What I feel for people of faith who make
statements such as, "gays are going to hell," is sadness. My feeling is that these individuals are so
insecure about who they are, and how God views them that they feel they need to
speak for God in a way that they present themselves as more worthy of
salvation. That's not God speaking
through them, that is fear. I feel
sorrow for these people, because they are letting fear control them and their
actions.
2. They’ve
asked scientists and other heterosexuals if being gay is a choice or how they
were born, but for some reason they never ask the people who are gay themselves,
so with that said, is it a choice or was it how you were born?
Cary
Vaughn: I can't speak for everybody else on this as I believe that sexuality is
pretty broad, but for me, I certainly didn't choose it. I knew since I was a
child. It just happened. As a matter of fact, as a teenager, if I had the
ability to choose, I would have chosen not to be. Where I come from, the world
is cruel to gay people, and I didn't want to have to endure that, so I stayed
"in the closet." People often wonder how, if I was married, I could
have sex with a woman. I just tell them that a young man with a sex drive will
put his penis in pretty much anything. I had sex with a woman, but I was always
attracted to men.
Gay
Dave: Oh it was definitely how I was born. Looking back at my life and when I
was little, it was pretty obvious. As stereotypical as it sounds, I would always
prefer to play with Barbie than GI Joe...although, Barbie did need someone to
date because Ken was just her gay BFF. HA! But I always remember being more
attracted to boys than girls. That was even before I knew what being gay meant.
Phillip
"Buddy" De Blieck: I can state without any hesitation that being gay
for me is not a choice...it is who I am.
I was born into a family with 3 other siblings (whom I love dearly and
they, in turn, love me fully). For the
most, we were all presented with the same set of circumstances in our
developmental stages. We watched the
same movies, we played the same sports, we hung around with the same kids and
we were given the same set of parental guidance and love. In the debate over homosexuality being one of
nature vs. nurture, the nurturing I received was extremely similar to my
siblings, and yet I am the only one who identifies as being gay. I remember quite early on while watching
movies like King Kong, with Jessica Lange, or Jacqueline Bisset in The Deep,
and television shows such as Charlie's Angels and Wonder Woman that I didn't
have the same reaction as my brothers' to the females that were being showcased
in limited clothing. There was no
desirous thoughts crossing my mind. I
did, however, feel an attraction for Lee Majors as The Six-Million Dollar
Man. Even earlier than that I was drawn
to Gary Collins in the television series, The Sixth Sense, and to Brian Keith
in Family Affair. At the time I wasn't
mentally developed enough to understand that I had an attraction for these television
leading men. And yet, looking back I can
see that even at 5 years of age I was attracted to males. The only choice that I ever had was to live
my life as the person I was as gay or lead a miserable existence of deception
and self-hatred. To be honest, I think
if I didn't accept who I was and what my sexual orientation was then I would
have lead a sexless life.
3. Based on
what you already know and experienced from being gay it today’s world, would
you recommend other gays to remain in the closet and stay hidden, or kick open
the door and let the people know that you’re here, you’re queer and they need
to get used to it?
Cary
Vaughn: This is such a personal choice. I get uncomfortable when people make
generalized statements about what gay men (closeted or otherwise) should do.
How can these people have no consideration for individual circumstances? Yes,
there is power in numbers, but when you come out, your life changes (at least
mine did). Sometimes for the good, sometimes for the bad. A life transition
like that requires a person to be in a good place so that they are emotionally
prepared for either. I think what's lacking is support for those that are
scared of making this change. I mean, coming out is like confessing to a lie. A
really BIG lie. It's not easy to confess to the world you lied to them this
whole time.
Gay
Dave: I think coming out is a very personal thing and you have to pick the
right time to come out. As much as I'd love to say that coming out is the best
thing ever, for some young gay kids, coming out could cause them to get kicked
out on the street or banished from their families. If they're young and in a
supportive family, sure they can come out. Otherwise it might be better to wait
until they're on their own and can support themselves financially and
emotionally. If they're older and already on their own, then it's just best to
come out when they're ready. I don't think it's right to out someone.
Phillip
"Buddy" De Blieck: I would never recommend other gay people remain in
the closet, but I can understand why some would want to. If there is one fundamental truth that I hold
dear to and live by it is the words written by Shakespeare in Hamlet where
Polonius speaks his last words of advice to his son, Laertes:
"This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man."
I
cling to these words as a beacon of light...and of personal courage. I must be true to who I am, and to live as
freely, openly and honestly as possible.
If I cannot be true to myself then regardless of what I do or say to
others I would be living a lie and being false to those who know me. This is how I choose to live my life. I have found peace and happiness in living
this way, and I would encourage others to live their truth. But, I would be remiss not to state that in
making the decision to live my life this way I have lost things. I was asked to leave my high school and not
return, I've had family members turn their backs to me and never speak to me
again, I lost my best friend, I was shunned by church members and church
leaders, I found myself homeless with nothing except a small bag of clothes and
eighty dollars in my pocket. I lost a
lot of things by being publicly outed in high school and it was extremely
difficult. And yet, even with everything
I lost, I am happy for having the courage to live an open life.
4. What’s
your opinion with how gays are portrayed in Hollywood?
Cary
Vaughn: My opinion is that it's rather silly to give entertainment the power to
persuade mine or the public's opinion. It's merely entertainment. And
entertainment (for the sound mind) is only an escape from the real world. I
will say, however, that there are certainly more gay role models being
portrayed in movies and television than when I was growing up. When I
"came out" Will & Grace was a popular television show, and in my
inexperienced mind, gay people were either a serious Will or a flamboyant Jack.
It was life that taught me that there are just as many varieties of gay men as
there are straight men. So with that I say, if you really want to learn about
gay men and gay culture, don't use a medium of fiction as a reference. Get out
and get to know some gay people for goodness sake.
Gay
Dave: I'm surprised at how many gay roles there are now in Hollywood. I grew up
in a time when you didn't see anyone gay on TV. I mean there were some
"questionable" characters but there weren't out gay characters. Now
there's gays, lesbians, transgenders everywhere....I think it's great for gays
to see themselves portrayed in the media. It shows gays that they're not alone
and gives them characters to relate to. Sure sometimes the roles are stereotypical
but sometimes stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason. HA! But it's good when
that's not always the case.
Phillip
"Buddy" De Blieck: In terms of how gays are portrayed in Hollywood
today I would say that we are finally being shown as people. It has taken a long time to get to the point
of showing gays that are vastly different.
In decades past gays were generalized as being overtly feminine. I accept and embrace the gay males that
openly express their femininity, and love them for the courage they
exhibit. But not all gay men are the
same. We all come from different
backgrounds with different views and different feelings. Just as straight people are different so are
gays. When I was young and gay we didn't
have many people who were openly gay that we could look toward to give us a
sense of self-acceptance and pride, so many gay people from my generation felt
alone and isolated. It would have been
wonderful to have gay male Hollywood icons that I could identify with. I remember attending the GLAAD awards one
year when Marriage Equality was in the earliest public debate and one of the
attendees was Elizabeth Taylor. She took
to the stage and said, "I don't know what all the fuss is about gay
marriage. The way I see it is if two
people love each other they should be able to get married. And I should know a thing or two about
marriage! And, I've been very fortunate
in my career to have worked with all the most wonderful gay actors in
Hollywood. I worked with Montgomery
Clift, I worked with Rock Hudson, and I worked with James Dean!" It would have been personally incredible to
know that these Hollywood A-List actors were gay, but if they wouldn't have had
the career they did if they were out and open.
We needed to grow as a society before Hollywood could portray us
accurately. We've finally reached that
point, and I'm thrilled to see it.
5. Would
you say that most people of faith are accepting of you and your way of life and
show you much love, or condemning and constantly trying to change you and/or demeaning?
Cary
Vaughn: It wouldn't be fair to make a general statement about this. Some are
kind and accepting, others are not. To me, a person's mental stability has more
to do with how they treat a gay person than their faith.
Gay
Dave: I'm lucky because I live in a state that isn't very religious. So nobody
ever tries to condemn me or change me for religious reasons. I've been
discriminated against for being gay but never by religious people, it's always
been from ignorant people. Some members of my family are some what religious
(Catholic) and accepting of me and I work in a company that is owned by a
Jewish family and they're completely accepting of me. I came out in the job
interview so they knew from the get go. Personally I think Jewish people have
had their time being persecuted and they're much more accepting of gays. But
that's just my personal experience.
Phillip
"Buddy" De Blieck: For the most part, I don't come across too many
people of faith that spew hateful sentiments toward me, because the church that
I attend was originally founded with its doors open to everyone but with a
special outreach to the LGBT community.
I usually take part in the annual Los Angeles Gay Pride parade, and
there are always a number of protesters carrying signs declaring that God Hates
Fags or Burn In Hell Sodomites, or some other such disgusting, vile words of
hate. This past Saturday, I attended the
memorial service for my friend, Rev. Malcolm Boyd, and I was momentarily taken
aback by the sight of some elderly man who was carrying a homemade sign of some
form of hate. My husband and I walked
boldly toward the protester...all the while holding each other's hand. I couldn't tell exactly what it said because
as we were passing the man to climb the steps to the church he began screaming
at us and told us that someone had torn part of his paper sign. He still let us know that God hates us and
that we'd be going straight to hell.
STRAIGHT to hell? The irony of
the statement brought a smile to my face, and I waved to him and said,
"God bless you, brother." I
guess that the effectiveness of the protesters' hateful ways has long since
been lost to me.
6. Do you
ever get tired of hearing straight men say, “I don’t mind gay people, as long
as they don’t try anything”?
Cary
Vaughn: Ha. I've never encountered this one, actually. Must be nice to think
you're so hot that homos are anxious to "try something." To those
straight men, I would say, "Honey, don't worry. Straight men are
absolutely terrible at gay sex. You wouldn't do it for me at all."
Gay
Dave: I've never actually had a straight guy say that to me. If they did, I'd
probably make a comment about them being hot or having a nice ass just to unnerve them. HA!
Phillip
"Buddy" De Blieck: This statement must be one that is said to straight
men. I don't ever hear it
personally. I have many friends who are
heterosexual, and I would never disrespect them in any way to make them feel
uncomfortable. Although I do have a very
dear straight friend who works in law enforcement, and used to work for the
bomb squad, that insists on greeting me with a kiss on the lips. His wife laughs and says that I am one of the
very few men he ever kisses that way.
And then there is my straight brother-in-law, Jimmy. He and I have the most wonderful, mutually-loving
relationship. He's been calling me with
the nickname, Precious, since the first day we met. He grabs my head and plants a big old kiss on
me.
(This must be something that only straight men say to each other when trying to come off as tolerant, a half-assed attempt at being political correct I guess.)
7. Why do
you think some people fight so hard to keep gays from marrying, with arguments
like, “the sanctity of marriage” and/or the ever famous, “it would lead to
bestiality, incest, etc.”, when marriage as it stands between one man and one
woman is by no means for the most part respectable and/or holy?
Cary
Vaughn: I believe that people fight so hard against same-sex marriage simply
from indoctrination and/or social acceptance (my peers are against gay marriage
so I am, too). Nowadays, it's as if some are trying to
"out-Christian" each other with more and more outrageous claims (such
as same-sex marriage leading to marrying a pig or a child), as if it makes them
a better Christian if they think up more horrible things about gay people than
their predecessor. We've gone from "gay parents stunt the developmental
growth of children" all the way to "gays will die out because we
don't reproduce." I sit by and anxiously await what these people (who have
absolutely no experience with science or gay culture) will think of next. I'm
just stumped as to why some people latch on to maniacal rhetoric such as that
without considering logic and reason.
Gay
Dave: That's easy, it's about discrimination and fear of what they don't know.
People who are closed minded can't see anything outside of their own little
world. Once they believe something, they can't admit they're wrong about it.
Phillip
"Buddy" De Blieck: I am not sure why some people are fighting so hard
to stop gay marriage. Maybe some people
just are not happy unless they have something to hate. They NEED to have something, or someone,
where they can direct their anger to feel a sense of superiority. Some seem to be going to great lengths to
prevent Marriage Equality from happening, and make outrageous allegations of
how it is going to ruin society, or that it will lead to bestiality or
incest. You have to wonder what the
world would be like if they were able to redirect all this negative energy and
focus it positively on something that they appreciate and would like to see
flourish and succeed.
8. Have the
actions of people, who claim to be of faith, in regards to gays hinder your
feelings towards said faith?
Cary
Vaughn: Yes. It's hard not to, though I know this isn't fair to judge a group
of people based on a few. But I make these judgments based on experience, not
prejudice. I've been emotionally burned too many times in the name of God. It
would be stupid of me not to be guarded.
Gay
Dave: Oh yeah, I'm not religious at all and I wouldn't get involved in an
organized religion. I wouldn't get involved in any organization (religious or
otherwise) that discriminates for any reason. I wouldn't join a country club
that doesn't allow blacks or an all male club that excludes women either.
Unless you're accepting of everyone, I'm not interested. You know what, if
someone has a problem with gays that's there problem and not mine, I'd prefer
to be told up front and we can both move on with our lives.
Phillip
"Buddy" De Blieck: People of Faith are first and foremost people, and
we are all human with faults. And yes,
that includes me. I am not perfect, and
I am not a Saint, and I still can grow and learn about topics or issues that I
am either ignorant or misguided about. I
accept that in myself, and I accept that in others. It is rather disheartening to hear people
that we would like to believe has a closer connection to God make statements
that just do not ring as being from a place of love and inclusiveness, and I
can only hope and pray that at some point they will receive a revelation and
change of heart.
9. Is it
scary being gay in today’s world?
Cary
Vaughn: It is. Every time I read a story about violence and emotional abuse
against gays (and it happens much more often than you may realize because most
of them aren't covered in mainstream media), I always think to myself, 'That
could have easily been me or my partner.' I'm getting sad even thinking about
this, actually. There are places I don't go because of this. Church, for
example.
Gay
Dave: Not where I live. But there's certain places in the world I wouldn't go
because of the way they treat gays. For me as a teen, being gay was very scary
and life threatening but once I became an adult it really hasn't been an issue.
Phillip
"Buddy" De Blieck: I have seen such a huge societal change since
first coming out in 1979. That period,
and the era of the AIDS epidemic, were scary times, but those frightening times
made us strong and fearless. We found
our voice and we used it to help change perception. Today I see how the groundwork that we did
back then has helped mold the general understanding of what being gay really
is, and how youths are able to express themselves with pride. There are still cases where young LGBT
individuals are victimized due to their orientation, so I know that we still
need to educate some people.
10. When it
comes to equal rights for gays, are we as a society making long strides and on
the right track, or taking baby steps and even sometimes standing still?
Cary
Vaughn: I think we are moving at the right pace. History has taught us that
cultural change has a timeline. However, when I first came out, I never thought
I would see states legally recognize same-sex marriage in my lifetime. Goes to
show you never know. As much as I wish we could wave a wand and create
acceptance, you can't change a world's perspective in a short amount of time
and you can't force this change. Doing so only creates more resistance and
anger, and my life is already full of enough conflict.
Gay
Dave: I grew up in a time when gay marriage wasn't even an option. I never
thought I'd be able to get married. So now that I can, I still haven't. I've
been with my partner for 13 years and we talk about it but more in terms of
what it could legally grant us. The institution of marriage isn't that
important to us. So when you think about it in those terms (marriage and gays
in the media), I think we've come quite a ways in my lifetime. But it's been a
slow time coming. I can't believe there are still places that don't allow gay marriage
which is saying that we're still ok with discrimination in this country. For me
it's not a question of what does marriage mean (is it between a man and a woman
or two men or two women), for me it's a matter of who can we discriminate
against and who is it ok to withhold rights from. I'd like to think that in my
life time I'll see gay marriage in all states and maybe we'll start worrying
about more serious issues like poverty, homelessness, and the Kardashian's
setting the women's movement back 100 years. HA!
Phillip
"Buddy" De Blieck: I am quite proud of the advancements that we have
seen over the past 3.5 decades. When you
look at the actual time frame, 35 years to get progress to this point is rather
astounding. We haven't yet achieved all
we hoped and dreamed for in terms of equality for the LGBT community...but I'm
hopeful to see it come to full fruition before it is my time to be welcomed
into Jesus' arms.
11. How do
you feel about the "Sodomite Suppression Act" and/or the “Religious
Freedom Restoration Act”?
Cary
Vaughn: When I first read about Matt McLaughlin's proposal, I thought I was
reading satire. When I realized he was serious, I kind of laughed to myself
(see answer about sitting back and watching what these crazy people will do
next) because we all know that a law like this will never pass. The religious
freedom bills that are popping up across the US, however, are annoying. It's
hard to believe that some still don't understand that for every action, there
is a reaction. For Matt, there's currently a petition to have him (rightfully)
disbarred (and it's already at 35,000 signatures and growing), and on many
occasions, large businesses have threatened to take their money elsewhere if a
state signs a religious freedom bill into law (I've provided links supporting
this below):
If
only the parents of the people who are behind these proposed laws would have
raised their children to not be bigots, they wouldn't now be marked in history
as an embarrassment to this country.
Gay
Dave: Well I didn't know that these acts existed. I find it sad that people
would spend SO much money to try and make discrimination and even murder legal.
That money could be spent doing something good for the world instead of tearing
it down. I feel the same way about all the money being spent on laws to prevent
gay marriage. Use that money to help those in need! Stop spreading hate!
Phillip
"Buddy" De Blieck: I am repulsed by the "Sodomite Suppression
Act," and find that a person who thinks it would be a good idea to kill a
group of people should be locked up from society. I am all for free speech, but a person who
believes this is a justifiable act is a seriously dangerous individual with
demented thoughts. As for the
"Religious Freedom Restoration Act," I can understand that people
have their own personal religious beliefs that drive them, but they probably
shouldn't open public businesses. If
they object so fervently to differences in beliefs then they should perhaps
find a different line of work. I
couldn't imagine a company putting up signs that says, "We don't serve
Jewish people, or Buddhists, or Muslims."
Needless to say the treatment of the
LGBT community in this world of ours is appalling, shameful and utterly ridiculous,
and if things don’t change for the better real soon, I could honestly see us
fighting another Civil War.
Now of course we all know there’s no
such thing as a “Civil War”, it’s an oxymoron, it’s not like we say to each other before we
fire on them, “Excuse me my brother, would you mind if I shot you”.
Nevertheless, that is where we are
heading if we don’t make some drastic changes to our way of thinking, but this
time instead of fighting over slavery, trades, etc, we will be fighting over
people’s sexual orientation, and tell me that’s not ludicrous.
I am ashamed to admit this, but it
seems as if a good majority of the negativity that is being aimed at these
people is coming from those who claim to be followers of God or some other deity.
Their actions and statements give
religion as a whole, regardless of the faith, a very poor reputation.
We, as God fearing individuals (no
matter what God you follow) should not allow this, and should do everything in
our power to fight the enemies within our walls and cleanse our faith for the
betterment of its people and its message.
You may not agree with it, you may
not think it’s natural, but the bottom line is it’s not for you to decide and
quite frankly you should just mind your own business.
God loves us all equally, and not
just the ones you think deserve it or not.
MJM